Our polarized society makes assumptions that the people serving in our Legislature only want to win instead of doing the right thing. Learn why that's not true from two North Dakota legislators.
As the 68th Legislative Assembly draws to a close, your host, Emmery Mehlhoff, takes an opportunity to interview two freshman legislators and their thoughts going into the session and what they learned throughout it.
Rep. Karen Anderson of District 19 is a long-time Farm Bureau member and Walsh County commissioner. She also has experience in human service issues on the local level, which she used in her committee assisngment on the House Human Services Committee. View her N.D. Legislative branch bio page .
Senator Judy Estenson of District 15 is also a long-time Farm Bureau member. She is a retired registered nurse and farms with her family near Warwick. View her N.D. Legislative branch bio page .
To learn more about Farm Bureau's position on issues visit our policy page on the NDFB website.
Contact Senator Estenson: @jestenson@ndlegis.gov
Contact Rep. Anderson: @kanderson@ndlegis.gov
Contact Emmery Mehlhoff: @emmery@ndfb.org
Our polarized society makes assumptions that the people serving in our Legislature only want to win instead of doing the right thing. Learn why that's not true from two North Dakota legislators.
As the 68th Legislative Assembly draws to a close, your host, Emmery Mehlhoff, takes an opportunity to interview two freshman legislators and their thoughts going into the session and what they learned throughout it.
Rep. Karen Anderson of District 19 is a long-time Farm Bureau member and Walsh County commissioner. She also has experience in human service issues on the local level, which she used in her committee assisngment on the House Human Services Committee. View her N.D. Legislative branch bio page .
Senator Judy Estenson of District 15 is also a long-time Farm Bureau member. She is a retired registered nurse and farms with her family near Warwick. View her N.D. Legislative branch bio page .
To learn more about Farm Bureau's position on issues visit our policy page on the NDFB website.
Contact Senator Estenson: @jestenson@ndlegis.gov
Contact Rep. Anderson: @kanderson@ndlegis.gov
Contact Emmery Mehlhoff: @emmery@ndfb.org
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Emmery Mehlhoff: Welcome to Straight talk with NDFB. This is your host, Emmery Mehlhoff. Today I visit with Senator Judy Estenson and Representative Karen Anderson, individuals who have been active in North Dakota Farm Bureau for several years. Senator Estenson and Representative Anderson visit with me about their experience, their surprises and disappointments along the way, and what it means to represent true conservative values in the North Dakota Legislature. Join us for this conversation.
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Emmery: Welcome to Straight talk with NDFB. Today I am very excited about two representatives joining me from the North Dakota Legislature. I have Representative Karen Anderson and Senator Judy Estenson. Good morning, ladies. How are you today?
Rep. Karen Anderson: Doing good. Busy as usual.
Sen. Judy Estenson: Yes, it's a beautiful day. Spring has finally arrived in North Dakota.
Emmery: So both Senator Estenson and Representative Anderson have been members of Farm Bureau for a long time and have been active in the counties and on the state level. So if both of you could tell a little bit about yourselves, about the districts you came from, we'll get started there.
Rep. Anderson: So I'm Karen Anderson from District 19 up at the northeast part of North Dakota. I live between Grafton and Park River, and I serve Grafton, Cavalier, Park River, Drayton, Minto, Edinburgh. All up in that northeast corner there. So I've lived there for over 40 years. And the reason I decided to run, I was involved in my local district politics for about 15 years and was part of the executive board for that. Then we got redistricted, and it opened up a seat for me to run. I had been encouraged several times, and then this just seemed to be the right time. I am a Walsh County Commissioner for over eleven years, and I have been a Farm Bureau member, I bet almost 40 years, and have been on the Farm Bureau board at Walsh County for as long as I've been a commissioner. So when I ran for commissioner, they recruited me for the board, and I've been on there ever since.
Sen. Estenson: Well, I have an interesting story, and I'm going to try and make it really short. I didn't raise much other than five children for the last 30 years. I'm a nurse and my husband farmed and ranched, and I played a part in that, but not as probably active as a lot of farm women do.
I think where I really got involved with the Farm Bureau the first time was there was an animal protection bill in the Legislature, and we had a huge operation. We collected pregnant mare's urine, and we had large barns filled with horses. And so at that point, I had a son that was already working for the Farm Bureau. And they kind of came to my husband and said, "Would you talk about all the regulation and all the problems that could occur with this animal protection bill?" And my husband said, "Well, I won't, but my wife will." And so I came to the Legislature for the first time and testified on a bill and really got involved with the Farm Bureau going down the road and then got involved in some politics and ran for some offices. Really don't have a lot of political background either with experience, but just really felt a strong desire that we needed some conservative people in the Legislature and that if no one else was going to do it, it might need to be me. So I think that's a short version of how I got here.
Emmery: I was excited to have both of you on together today because of the background that both of you have had with the Farm Bureau, the insight that both of you have had for a long time and then taking that to the North Dakota Legislature. And so why don't both of you just talk about how you have seen your experiences back at home influencing the process and what are your insights so far on the legislative process?
Rep. Anderson: So I'll just start kind of at the beginning of my experience in ag. And I grew up on a farm, helped out at an early age. My dad, we didn't farm much, but all of us kids were involved. It was not on my radar, but I did end up marrying a farmer and I worked alongside him and we raised sugar beets and potatoes and small grains. Then we raised two kids and we did have to quit farming, but I stayed involved and I rent out my land now and my son lives on one of my farms.
So getting back then to Farm Bureau, getting involved, of course, as I mentioned before, I ran for County Commissioner and before that election, the Farm Bureau Legislative School came up and I went to that. I really have learned so much about ag policy through Farm Bureau though, and then being involved with another group that I've been helping lobby for the last seven sessions. So I'm familiar with a lot of what goes on at the Legislature beforehand. And so a lot of it wasn't new, like the outfront stuff about coming to testify, like Judy said. So there was a lot that I had to learn when I came here. But I felt like I was prepared, being involved with my lobby group and then being involved with the County Commission for over eleven years. But there is a lot to learn and I really feel like Farm Bureau is such a good place to start and get a lot of information. There are so many helpful people around. I think I've been prepared to come here.
Sen. Estenson: So I'm not sure, Emmery, what I want to tell you, but I think that one of the cool things about coming here is that I don't think it matters really so much what your background is. I came, of course, with a healthcare and an ag background to some degree, but I actually chose to be on different committees. And I think that the reason I did that is because I thought I could critically think through the bills that were the most familiar to me and that by learning some new things in judiciary and state and local government that I would broaden my knowledge base. And I think what's kind of cool when you get here is that you recognize that people do have expertise in very many different areas, and that there is no way that one senator or legislator can know all the things they need to know with the massive amount of content that we are expected to have some knowledge about in order to vote intelligently on all of these bills.
I think that what's been interesting to me is that even though I thought I knew what the process was, there's a lot more complexity to it than I initially thought. And even though there's been a bill failed here or bill vetoed here, now it's slapped onto another bill. And I didn't realize there was so much of that in this last period of the Legislature. So it's kind of like you think you're done with the bill or that you voted on that, now it's going to be back to you again. So the process seems a lot longer than what I initially thought.
What I bring to the table sometimes, I think is just the wisdom of what it's like to raise children in the state and to have an occupation, and we have all these experiences that we bring to the table. And I think it's interesting sometimes when I stand up and say some simple little thing on the floor and people will say, "Wow, I never really thought about it like that," or "That really influenced me." And I think sometimes you think it's what's common knowledge is not common. And it's a conversation that happens on the floor that I think is really an amazing thing. Today we had a very controversial bill, and it was the voucher bill and supporting private schools, and we did an hour on the floor and the debate was nothing but respectful to each speaker that shared their ideas about whether this was a good idea or not. And so I think the most positive thing I can say about being part of the Senate is the respectful way with which we treat each other and our diversity of thought. That part has been very pleasant and nice to see.
Emmery: Let's talk a little bit more about things that maybe have been unexpected, whether pleasant or unpleasant, in both of your chambers.
Rep. Anderson: Well, I would have to agree with Judy. I really feel like everyone doesn't agree with everything you agree with, but I feel like everybody is respectful to each other. And I think the best thing is that you can go to another legislator and talk to them about a bill and you can walk away still friends. We're not up here to fight. We're just up here to work for the people of North Dakota and do what's best for them, for our families. I think that's the most important. And I feel like that happens here. We can go to our leadership and they respect us, they listen to us, and then we have to listen to what everything else is said. I think that goes a long way with having a lot of respect, whether it's in your own political party or another political party. I think it just really is that way up here, and people might not think it's that way, but it really is.
Sen. Estenson: So I think what's been a surprise to me sometimes is that politics has become so divisive out there. It's almost like it's either us against them, or it's just constantly this winning mentality. And I think it's been really fun for me to recognize that I can stand up on the floor and be completely in opposition to other senators, and they can stand up, and we try to present facts, just facts. And if you present facts, it's not personal disagreement. It's just the conclusion is sometimes different. We just conclude differently with the facts that we're presented with. I think one of the most difficult things for me is I thought that things would be simpler. So when I sit in judiciary and I'm trying to learn all the things I need to about making law and law, I would come into committee sometimes and I'd think, oh, these bills should be really easy because I already think I know where I stand on this. And then it's like then there's the other side of the story, and then you hear the opposition testimony, and now you are like a judge and a jury. You're trying to weigh the facts and come up with the best conclusion. And I think sometimes it's easier than others. Sometimes, believe it or not, we are very much almost in this neutral position of I'm not sure which side has presented the best facts for or against. And it's difficult because you want to do the right thing. You want to make the right choices for the state of North Dakota. And it's not just about what's your philosophy or your beliefs. You really have to weigh it heavily, in other regards. It's not about my preference when I'm here. It's about what I really, truly believe is the best. And so I think it's more complicated than I had anticipated. I think I thought those decisions would be easier, and I think sometimes they're really hard. An example would be the day that we voted on some of the transgender bills and those things. And even though I so strongly believed that I was making the right vote, it was almost painful for me in knowing that in some people's view, that vote was harmful or hurtful to them. And I think I sort of have a mother's heart, and I just never intend for that. That's never my intention. And so I think that though I voted the way I thought was best for the people, it was still a hard vote, so it's not as simple as it would sometimes appear.
Emmery: Out on the countryside, you don't hear very many positive comments about any form of government, and I think that is really disappointing and sad. Obviously, you have the noise of the national media and the national government, and I think there's a lot of frustration out there. You also hear that a lot about our state government, that you guys spend too much. There's just a general negative sentiment about it. Now that you're kind of reaching the end of your first session here, do you have any insights on how the process goes, what your colleagues are like, and your general thoughts?
Sen. Estenson: I think the frustrating part sometimes is that I think that these people here are way smarter than what the general public claims. And I think I've gained nothing but respect for the people that are here. And I think it's frustrating sometimes when I feel like the news media actually twists stories to make us look stupid. And I think that President Trump used to say fake news, and it always bothered me. But since I've been here, on occasion, I'd like to say the same thing. When you twist two issues like they voted for increased meal reimbursement but voted against increasing school lunches for hungry children, it's a very twisted narrative. And I think that has made me recognize how frustrating it is to be here and have such disparaging comments made about the people that are here. So I think that's been hard.
Emmery: How do you be a truly effective legislator? Judy, you mentioned just the challenge of making a good decision, how you sort through all of the facts and all of the different opinions on a different bill. But how do you do that? And then if you do make a decision on a piece of legislation, how do you be effective in that and not just be the lone stander out that can't seem to get any of their issues pushed through?
Sen. Estenson: How to be an effective legislator,I'm not exactly sure if I've mastered that one yet, but I will tell you this, Emmery, and that is that I'm not in this to be a politician or for the long run. I promised myself I would come in and be as true to myself and my values as I could possibly be. And so when I make a vote, it isn't to make people happy with me. It is because that's what I think is the best solution for North Dakota. And so I make those decisions. And I am not happy that I have to get a lot of things in my inbox that are less than pleasant, but I'm not afraid of them because I'm not in this to just be reelected.
The other thing is that I just really, truly want to be true to what I think is best, and I've made some mistakes. We're all trying to learn a lot, and there have been times I've made a vote and then had somebody give me some more information, and I might say, "Oh, I made a mistake on that." But the number of bills that we vote on is astronomical in a very short time. And so all we can do is make the best vote with what we have been presented, what information we have. And so I always tell people, if you have something you want me to know about, you need to do it before I'm on the Senate floor ready to take a vote. You need to reach out to me and share the information that you want me to have. It is a very challenging job, and it's not something everybody's willing to do. And I wish people just treated their representation with a little bit more respect.
Rep. Anderson: So how to become an effective legislator? That's a million dollar question. Like Judy said, we have so many bills that we possibly can't know everything about all of them. So you stick to your committees and what you know about that. I thought picking human service was going to be a piece of cake for me, but there is so much to learn about health and human service that I didn't know about. And I've had experience being on the commission, so I do know a little bit about a lot of the stuff. But it's just so much we have to rely on the departments, and I rely a lot on my committee members, and so that's how you get through it. And there's always someone who will not be happy with the way you vote, because there's a yes and there's a no.
I guess one of the things that I've encountered is I guess I've been just a little bit disappointed about the small number of people who have contacted me about votes. And then I think, well, people elected me and they know that I have conservative values and that's why I got elected, and that's how I will vote unless you tell me otherwise. So that's a hard part of it. Part of being a good legislator, I think, is listening, asking a lot of questions from your other fellow legislators. And I just feel really, that anybody who's been here for one or two more sessions, they have a lot to offer, and they're so happy to give you advice and help you out. I like the fact that Judy said it shouldn't become personal. You weigh the facts and you come up with the best conclusion. And I think we do get a bad rap for being down here. I know that being involved with a lobby group and being down here, I've tried to really stand up for my legislators and all the other legislators because it is a hard job. It's hard to make the right choices sometimes but you just go with what you feel is right, you learn a lot, and experience down the road will make you a better legislator.
Emmery: We have term limits now, and so we're going to see turnover of legislators in a way that we've never seen in North Dakota over the next few years. And what would be your encouragement to a listener who may not have an interest in running or may have an interest in running in why it's important to get involved, why it's important to at least know your legislator get involved on your local level to have a voice in their ear. And then if they are interested in running, what would be your advice for somebody who may not know how to go about it?
Rep. Anderson: I think if you are ready to learn and listen, you're ready to run for an office. I think part of that is getting involved in your local district. It could be as much as watching us on the floor or in our committee meetings. You learn so much about that. But we really need people to step up to the plate to do this because these term limits stay in place. We're going to need a lot of people to step up. I guess it's hard because people have full time jobs and they can't always be away for four months. It's an important job and we just need people to get more involved.
Emmery: You mentioned campaign school too, Karen. That was something that you went through. Can you talk about what campaign school is and how that helped prepare you?
Rep. Anderson: That was like over eleven years ago. I can't tell you details, but I know I really learned a lot. I have to give a shout out to Daryl Lies because he was in my class and it was really fun, but I did learn a lot. They will tell you how the process goes and what to do and even how to be involved. So that is really a good place to start to be involved in that campaign school.
Sen. Estenson: So, Emmery, what I want to say to people who might be thinking about it is that nobody has all the answers. I think sometimes people think that they have to have all the answers when they run. And the truth of the matter is you have to be a fairly intelligent person. I mean, somebody came up to me and said, there's three things that people typically look at when they're deciding if they're going to vote for somebody. And it was, do they have the intellect to learn the job? Because I think that's really more it. Are you willing to learn and do you have the intellect to learn the job? And do they have the stamina to do the job? Some days I'm not sure. And the most important thing is people look at you and go, is this an honest person? Is it somebody I can trust? Do I like her. It's really about likability. So I think that most people, when they're thinking about running, I think, even for myself, in all honesty, there was a lot of things I knew I did not know. There's lots of things I do, but there's lots of things I don't, and that's just the reality. And so I don't know that I really had all of the background that Karen had about how do things work at the local level in cities and counties, and I had never done that. But I think when you have a real desire to learn the job, that's just a huge thing, and people should recognize that. Nobody comes here with all of the answers. And I did campaign school a few times to get involved in your district level, like Karen says, I think that gets you started, and then people will help you along the way.
Emmery: Well, thank you both for taking time out of your busy schedule now that you're in the conference committee season, just to hammer out the last few bills. And there's a lot of pieces going everywhere, and the last of the budgets are coming together, and the last of the legislation is coming together with some pretty big votes coming up. So I appreciate both of your time. Thank you for being a voice for North Dakota Farm Bureau, for your constituents, and first and foremost, for conservatism in North Dakota. So thank you again.
Rep. Anderson: Thank you, Emmery. Yes.
Sen. Estenson: Thanks, Emmery. It was a pleasure.
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Emmery: You've been listening to straight talk with NDFB. To find out more about legislation NDFB is tracking during this legislative session, visit us at ndfb.org.
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